Peter Vack on Rachel Ormont

Peter Vack discusses being an edgelord IRL, seeking attention, supernatural loneliness, and rituals.

It was a chilly Friday in March, and I had just made the familiar and short walk to The Roxy Hotel. Usually, I’m outside this establishment between the hours of 12am-4am and against my will. This time it was 9:30pm, so I was already in a great mood due to the early start to my evening. My favorite Instagram scammer Caroline Calloway had posted about the screening of Rachel Ormont I was about to attend, and I was armed with a can of rosé and an open mind. If you’re reading this and you have no idea what I’m talking about, then you’re on the same wave I was when I showed up to this screening. All I knew about the film was that it was about a girl who was raised in captivity. I had no knowledge of the director, cast, and deeper plot points. Even if I had some prior synopsis, nothing could have prepared me for what I was about to watch.

Not to be a huge tease or anything, but if you want to continue reading my full review of Rachel Ormont, click on over to my blog post here! Now that I’ve set the stage and hopefully piqued your interest, let’s fast forward to April 2025. After being bewitched, disturbed and most importantly intrigued by Rachel Ormont, I knew I had to talk to Peter Vack, the director. Peter had cast his biological sister Betsy Brown as the titular role in this mind-bending, over-stimulating and sexually explicit flick. I did not know what to make of his character. His internet presence as the former admin of the now vanished @masterofcum meme account led me to think he was an internet troll obsessed with getting the better of people. His diverse casting choices and thoughtful Q&A responses after the screening led me to think he was in on the joke of his public persona. There was only one way to find out. After a successful DM slide on my end, this interview finally happened.

Time has certainly passed since I conducted this interview. His once shoulder length Jesus-hair has now, according to Instagram, been chopped like Samson’s. I am now an alumnus. What can I say? Life got in the way. But, such a long amount of time passing has given his interview the unique opportunity to marinate. Revisiting it like a forgotten kimchi jar has delightfully proved to me that my interest in Peter and his independent film, Rachel Ormont, was not just a pre-grad lapse in judgment.

We decided to meet at Casetta in Dimes Square at dusk (little did I know that months later I would soon call this area home). I arrived 10 minutes early to claim a good table. Peter arrived about 5 minutes late (thankfully), so I had time to get comfortable at said table and prep my notes. It was a particularly brisk day in April. One of those days where the air is crisp and the warm glow of the sunset at 5pm is unnerving rather than comforting. It was my favorite fall-like weather, and his outfit reflected just that. With blacked out wayfarers, shoulder length hair, and a Deep Throat-Watergate style leather jacket with the collar popped, I recognized him right away. Ironic that an outfit suited for a spy in an 80’s movie only made him more distinct. If it wasn’t actually weather appropriate, I would’ve assumed the outfit was armor purely to make his persona even more mysterious. But once the interview started, it was confirmed that this was not the case. Again, before this interview the only impression I had of him was as the director of a quintessentially downtown film and a meme account moderator, so it’s not crazy that I expected a high energy, joke-obsessed, trolling humorist.

After ordering a peppermint tea for me and an espresso for himself, our conversation began.

Sara: So, it’s interesting that you mentioned the film is like a horror movie about the Internet, because it really is. She's literally like, in captivity. When did you come up with that idea? How did that come about? I know you mentioned Dimes Square in 2022 is where a lot of ideas happened.

Peter: Yeah, but I started writing the script and like late in like early 2014. 

Sara: Wow.

Peter: And at that time, I was like not very online. I was, like, looking at my culture really from an outsider’s perspective, and I was reading this over very critically. So that's really where it started, but then it took so long to find funding for and in that time I became very online. A lot of my activity online did have this…you know, it was like New York scene-centric. So all that stuff came later. Some of it was even added on set, but with a movie like this it just pulls ideas from so many places. Um, it's hard to really trace the origins. I begin as like a critic of the Internet, but I think [as I was making it] I made it as like a somebody who is a huge participant [in the internet]. So I hope that both flavors of my personality led. 

Sara: Yeah, for sure, 2014 is super early for this type of Internet, where it's like edgelord and like meme culture, so that definitely stands out like…

Peter: [Yeah], a lot of that stuff came later, but I feel like I think this, if I may be a little grandiose, I feel like I was like in the same kind of collective unconscious. Before I wrote this, I'd never seen Black Mirror. It was only when I was pitching this script that people started telling me what Black Mirror was. I really do believe that ideas like we don’t own them, but they float around and many people have them the same time. It’s this sort of techno ‘dystopic’ idea was like, I, and I guess that guy turned whatever booker or whatever his name, had a similar instant at that time. He was way was able to make his money. Sooner than I was, um, you know, the first version of script didn't have all the meme culture in it. I had to become a meme. In 2018, I became a meme creator, and so then in as that happened in my life, I updated the script accordingly.

Sara: That's interesting…like that idea that you said about other people having the ideas at the same time. Especially with the Internet, like we're all going through a really similar thing with access to it [cultural events], how we experience it. There's just this, um, kind of random quote by Michael Jackson. He has that idea where, he talks about the ‘Ether’, where it's like all these ideas are circulating and you have to open yourself up for them to come to you, and he said that if he didn't write his songs when the idea for the song came to him, Prince would get it. So, your thoughts are really similar to that?

Peter: Yeah, yeah David Lynch says that too. 

Sara: Yeah, they all say it

Peter: I love it. It's a really egalitarian way of thinking about it ideas. I do love meme culture. In the future, it would be cool if people remix this movie and made it their own, you know, like the idea that you don't own ideas, you just catch them and hopefully produce them and put your own spin on them.

Peter: Meme culture is all about, like, no one owns meme format. It's all just about how you iterate the blanks. That's very interesting, if you think about creativity that way, it's more generative, because if you feel like every idea you have is yours, it’s not your idea. I think it's like an amateur novice's mentality to get really… possessive over an idea. Say I had an idea, and then I was writing a script and I saw like an A24 movie that seemed similar. That [scenario] actually energizes me because I'm like, oh, that means that it is in the collective unconscious. That makes it more valuable. If you're really following your voice, you're pulling from the exact same collective unconscious thread as another artist. It’s basically a good thing if you see your ideas reflecting in others. It means you’re really like onto something that a lot of people are thinking and maybe your piece will resonate. 

Sara: I totally agree. There's no need to…I mean you can, reinvent the wheel in a way. You don't need to come up with something brand new for it to be new. 

Peter: Nothing new under the sun… someone said that once…

Sara: Yeah… someone. Um, for sure. With this movie in particular, you started writing the script in 2014, and it was shot in 2022? And how recently it was it finished? 

Peter: It took two years in post, but there was a lot of editing that took a long time, partially because…you know, there's this saying in the film business, “You can't have something fast, cheap and good—you can pick two.” So we needed things to be cheap and good, which means it's slow. My editor is somebody who gets paid probably quadruple what I could pay him. So we had to really work around all his other projects. The edit took forever. The scoring of the movie was very intricate and we used a composer and a beat maker from Atlanta, who used a lot of other beat makers. The sound design was very ornate

Sara: The sound design was really really good.

Peter: And the subtitling was also a challenge and so, if we had triple the budget, we could have done it probably in a year. But since we didn't, it's up to two years. And the idea of finishing something quickly is so appealing to the ego because I guess we live in a society. LOL, where we feel that being the first or being fast has a merit in and of itself, but with creative projects they really should last forever, so it's so much better to make it well and having taken this time than it is to rush something, because once it's out in the world, you can't make changes.

Sara: There's also this pressure, like what we were talking about before, how if you don't get your idea down soon enough, someone else might have it. But, it doesn't mean your idea isn’t unique. A lot of people, especially with social media, are able to have an immediate reaction to things. If someone gets their project out first and gets an immediate, positive reaction, you might not feel as able to release yours. So, a lot of people don't realize that there is merit in creating no matter what, even though your idea might be similar to someone else’s. You don't need to rush it out because, like you said, it should last. 

Peter: And if someone did make something similar before you got the chance to release, great. If there's a huge filmmaker that made a similar picture, that would be interesting and maybe then people would talk about us and mention our film in the same sentence. That would be helpful.

Sara: Yeah, for sure. And so now to pivot a little, with this movie, your sister was starring in it, and a lot of the people in your cast were either friends or someone that a casting director reached out to. I know your parents were in the movie also. Do you think that with a somewhat limited budget, would it have been possible to do this film without the help of your family and friends? 

Peter: Well, I would never have not used my sister with my parents. I mean, we have a long history of working together. My sister was the star of my last film [Assholes] and my parents were in my last short film. I don't believe there's another actress on the planet that could do what Betsy [Brown] did in the film. I mean, do you? 

Sara: I don't….I don't. I remember at the Q&A a lot of people said that she was fearless and I totally agree. In addition to the highly, like, intimate moments, she was literally laying down panty-less in Union Square [subway station]. Yeah, I don't know who else would have been able to be ‘paid not enough money’ to do that if you didn't have a strong relationship.

Peter: No, it’s not a role that I don't think anybody else could take on. So I never would have cast it without her. And it’s like a gesture in our family to use our family. We might not do it again, but this is like the culmination of a three film trilogy.

Peter: And you know, all these friends that were in the movie, they weren't my friends at first. An interesting thing is that…the movie was a lot about my reaction to my own loneliness. I was a pretty solitary person, and Rachel [Ormont] embodies sort of a supernatural loneliness. That really was my attempt to deal with my own loneliness for many years, but ironically, making this film introduced me to so many friends that are still my friends. It's a very sort of poetic outcome that a movie that was about loneliness, provided me an almost with too busy of a social life. Now, so many of them have created their own creative projects that I've been involved with. I maybe even have gone too far in the opposite direction and am overly social. Maybe my next film will be about my reaction to being overly social, and maybe it'll ruin all my friendships. That would be truly poetic. That's probably what I should do.

Peter: Make a note to self: make a movie about being social that ruins all of my friendships so I could be lonely again. My friends are gonna read that and go, shit, he's gonna ruin our friendships. 

Sara: They'd be one big social experiment. 

Peter: I mean, that's so something I would do.

Sara: So with that being said, your sister Betsy plays Rachel, and you said she's the only one who could have done this role. Which, I honestly get casting her because how else could you ask someone without being 100% certain that they could commit to such an intense role. My question is, What do you have to say to the people who say that it's inappropriate that she’s your sister. You know, because there’s a lot of sexually explicit content on the screen, not necessarily the x-rated scenes are with her, but she's masturbating for a lot of the film.

Peter: Um, I think they're entitled to their opinion. I'm certainly not the first filmmaker who's used family members in intense ways, and you know, one thing to note about Betsy and I is that really we didn't really have a relationship growing up. We didn't take baths together. I actually ignored her for most of her life, which wasn't a good thing. but we met as adults. So, it kind of allows us to have more of an adult relationship. When you're on set there’s those moments, but even though they seem intimate on screen there are 40 people around us at all times. You're so connected, not to your relationship with siblings, but to your relationship as the director, as the star.

Peter:The god of cinema is so important to Betsy and I, we like worship this god of cinema and of acting. And so, that actually imbues us with a power to focus on the work more than our squeamishness. Especially in this day and age with like intimacy coordinators and so many mainstream actors being so scared of intimate work…there’s no one you can ask but a family member because they won't turn around and cancel you. 

Sara: I mean, that is true…

Peter: So for people that think it's uncomfortable, I don't have anything to say to them. Like it's not… the tradition of cinema and theater has not been up until very recently about making the audience member comfortable. So I feel for them. They're entitled to that opinion and they don't have to watch the movie again. It's simply not for them.

Sara: Sure, for sure, for sure. You’re also really on the nose for the conversation right now, about having intimacy coordinators because, like we mentioned before we were on the record, Sean Baker and Anora. He also didn't have one, and that was a point of contention on the Internet. 

Peter: I feel bad for them because it felt like you are actually listening to the actors even if the public doesn’t agree, because Mikey and the guy's name.. my friend's name, but I can’t remember…I really like him as a person now. 

Sara: Mark [Eydelshteyn].

Peter: Yeah, he's a great kid and I felt so bad, even though that did not affect them at all. But in the moment where that felt like that controversy might have been brewing, I was like… people are so… we're in a moment where people are so connected to their egotistical feeling about what makes them uncomfortable that they're not listening to people. Because Mikey and the guy and Sean said we the actors didn't want it, and yet, you audience member want it? That's not the creative contract, like the creators and the participants of the work are not there to satisfy the audience member. You know, their sensitivities, they're not. All of my favorite works of art and cinema have actually profoundly disturbed me at first and that's kind of what I personally want from the film. But that being said, I don't think everybody needs to want that. You just need to let people who enjoy that kind of work enjoy it, and just back away. Don't try don't crawl into other people's territory and tell them how to work just cause it makes you uncomfortable. Just don't engage with that kind of work. And it doesn't yeah, it doesn't always mean that something evil is afoot. 

Sara: For sure. it was definitely interesting because Mikey said that she passed on it. She said no [to an intimacy coordinator], And on the Internet, people were coming for her, which is interesting. It's kind of counterintuitive because it's like, if you care about her well-being, why you're getting mad at her?

Peter: What do you think that’s about? It’s a brand new personality trait, and I don't understand it. What do you think that's about? 

Sara: I think it's similar to what you were saying, where people, what makes them uncomfortable, they are so keen on dealing with it intensely, rather than dealing with the actual reason why it makes them uncomfortable. The true reason for their discomfort can also align with a lot of things in the public sphere that are, like, considered morally wrong. Which, can result in a lot of good and a lot of change. But when that red flag goes off for them and they can't do anything but lash out uncontrollably, they think that's how the problem will be solved. I think that it's a lot of people not really knowing how to deal with how something makes them feel rather than, like, what something actually is. Because often their heart is in the right place, and what they have a problem with are issues that exist and need to be fought, like misogyny and sexual exploitation especially in the entertainment industry, but their rage is misdirected.

Peter: It’s true, and we're in this moment where you can block things out. Your algorithm is all about satisfying your needs. So I think that it has perverted people's feelings in such a way that they think everything in the world needs to satisfy their needs. They're invariably going to encounter things that make them uncomfortable, so instead of seeking to understand it, it's more just the reaction that it shouldn't exist. Internet culture and social media, which are many people are addicted to, promote the idea that you should be able to curate your whole experience.

Sara: I think some people are also just angry by nature and contrarians on the Internet. But for some people, that type of concern comes from a good place, so it's hard for them to look at themselves and be like, ‘what am I actually fighting about right now?’ ‘What am I actually upset about?’ So I think it's hard. It’s hard to fight against very real issues our society faces that we should change, through the Internet, without being led astray by the onslaught of response anyone can receive for anything.

Peter: Being angry at something, anything, works online, and everyone wants attention. So they're like, oh, well, if I'm gonna put an opinion online, I'm gonna get a lot more attention for a negative opinion. Even if people don't really have these opinions, they just, even unconsciously, pick up on the negativity because it’s more attention grabbing. Like, what could I get mad at today? I'm gonna get mad at it, and then I'm gonna be positively reinforced for that angle. 

Sara: The reward is really big for taking someone down and people agreeing with you [online].

Peter: I don't always believe half of the negative opinions I see online. I think a good portion of them are just people that know that it’s going to get them some approval. Attention. 

Sara: And it works inversely because then the thing that they don't like is getting more attention, rather than the actual cause they're fighting for.

Peter: It's been said so many times, but we've never had to deal with a reality where everyone's allowed to publish their opinions. Before the Internet, the only people that could publish opinions were like, academics, critics, novelists, journalists. You just weren't used to hearing from everybody. It's something that I'm not sure we'll ever figure out even in our lifetimes—how to deal with this. It's the paradigm shift of our life. 

Sara: I think it's unprecedented that we can hear everyone's voices all the time and react publicly to everything. It’s difficult to moderate because of free speech. I think some people should not have Internet attention. It's impossible for everyone to be totally one with the Internet. It’s something beyond us, but yeah, I think too many people have access and there’s not much we can do about it. Ethically. It’s also what makes the Internet so great, so it’s a Catch-22.

Peter: Yeah, we’ll never be able to close Pandora's box. 

Sara: Yeah, you can't go back. You can't tell somebody they can’t use the Internet and encroach on free speech. No one will stand for that. I guess that leads us to the main thing you could say about Rachel Ormont criticism. People who don't like it will just spread buzz about the movie.

Peter: I have an optimistic look about the future when the issues within the movie are less fresh, and the personalities in the movie don't trigger people as much. I'm optimistic that people will see this as a very sincere movie about a filmmakers attempt to try to deal with our new reality. They’ll see it as a movie about how overwhelming it is to have all these voices around at varying levels of sincerity, varying levels of brutal and quiet, and just what it means to grow up in this world. 

Sara: I think this movie will definitely be a really good time capsule, although it spans over this huge idea of Internet content and culture. With that being said, it could surpass whatever current negative opinion someone might have. It can be a touchstone for this bottom rock of the Internet. 

Peter: Yeah, of course, not every movie is gonna be for everybody. But at the very least, I think there are so few films that even attempt to deal with our moment online.

Sara: I think so. Whether it was intentional or not, it captures the good the bad and the ugly about internet life. So, are you gonna do another screening soon? I know we talked about distribution already…

Peter: We have another one coming up on May 5th?, 3rd or 5th I have to double check. And then we're going to do our best to get it in as many theaters around the country as possible. 

Sara: Do you have a timeline for that? 

Peter: Because we don't have a traditional distributor yet, (I'd still be open to it) it’s freeing that there is no timeline. We can just show the movie for as long as theaters want to show it. I mean, even though I would love for a traditional distributor to come on board, the benefit is that all the balls are completely on our court. A traditional distributor would put some sort time frame on it, but I don't have to. 

Sara: So you when do you think—if you are at all—going to start working on something new?

Peter: Well, I’m very early days in a new idea, but it's such an embryo that there's really nothing much to say. I think that I'm probably always going to be interested in stories about how the Internet affects our relationships. I mean to me, that is the uncharted territory of art right now. The thing that bothers me about so many contemporary movies is that they act like we're still living in the 80’s or the 90’s, but that isn't it. I get it cause it's a technical challenge, but there are some people like my Friend Eugene, who makes movies that deal with it [the Internet]. He's one of the few people that does. My sister's films have attempted to do that. But I think because it is such a challenge, a technical challenge, an emotional challenge, people don't wanna be honest. If there's anything that does feel like a through-line for me, it would be my novel, Silly Boy, which I'll plug. It takes place in 2015, which is like an older, more naïve version of social media. It was another attempt where I had to portray how the Internet affects a couple.

Sara: I think you love the Internet! I know you're an actor too. So do you think you'll go back to acting? 

Peter: Yeah, I don't feel like I've left that. There's something about writing and making a film that feels like acting. It’s all just a similar impulse for me. I love it. 

Sara: Did you always want to direct? 

Peter: I’ve wanted to direct for a while, not always. Not when I was a little child. I was a child actor, but I wanted to direct at least since I was a teenager. 

Sara: That's super long term. Really cool. 

Peter: Filmmaking is a long winding road. 

Sara: It is. The creative process almost never ends. But when you do reach the end of Rachel Ormont, after all is said and done…and edited. Do you have something like a ritual you do? I mean, you're an actor so, you do have experience wrapping projects on a conventional timeline.

Peter: I don’t have a ritual, but I like the idea of creating one. It's a good idea, it’s cool, yeah. 

Sara: You don't, like, go out and celebrate or anything?

Peter: I mean, I feel like every time I show the film it's a celebration. The fact that this film exists is in and of itself such a miracle. Every independent film is a miracle….But now, I’m just thinking about a ritual. I should probably make one.

Sara: I mean, it can be just like going to get a drink or something. That's a ritual for anybody. 

Peter: Yeah, I’ll do that.

Sara: You can do whatever! It's up to you, it’s just the intention you set that’s different. I know a lot of people who have rituals, but I guess that's more people who use the method [method acting], so they have to unwind. 

Peter: Once we're done showing the film in theaters, I wanna hopefully get it online and that in and of itself could maybe be a ritual. My hope is just that the movie reaches as many people as possible. Those who love it, those who hate it, you know, every filmmaker wants their work seen by as many people as possible. 

THE END

You heard it here first! Go see the movie. You won’t regret it. You'll at least have something to talk about. There’s going to be a screening of WWW.RACHELORMONT.COM at The Roxy Theater this Saturday, September 27th at 7:15pm. Get your tickets here!

I hope this interview was insightful. My closing impressions are that Peter was honestly kind and professional. Most importantly, chill. For a 39-year-old male artist, I was pleasantly surprised at how receptive he was to speaking with me and how not patronizing he was. Maybe he is a master manipulator and wanted me to think exactly this as a part of some greater scheme to be cool online. Maybe the bar is on the floor for men, and I let this blind me into not diving deeper with my questioning. Maybe he really is just earnest and sincere. An earnest edgelord and memer, of course. It’s a small city, and I’ve already run into Peter outside my house and on a random Wednesday at the club. He said, “Hi”, but was not super eager to converse, so even after this in-depth interview, he still remains somewhat of a mystery. I hope I was able to reveal some of that to you, my dear readers!

The world is your oyster and pop culture is the pearl…so stay tuned, chic, and in the know.💌